Thank you Tom, although you have written the article that I have been thinking about. My discontent stemmed from forever reading stuff that told me what to do. Why can't I just be? I wonder, why do I have to be better, stronger, fitter etc.? However I still haven't been able to answer the question of what else there is to talk about.
I think it--once again--goes back to the high school writing advice will all receive. You’ve got to leave it on a happy ending. You’ve got tell people what lessons you’ve learned. You’ve got to evaluate. Blah.
It's always interesting to me that most people struggle to break out of the writing advice they got given at school. You're instantly 90% better as a writer if you just bin that shit off.
Again, you reveal things to me that i am subconsciously aware of - you make the subconscious conscious. I'm not "on" Twitter any longer so likely don't see a lot of what you are talking about, but I have definitely noticed that in essays - a sort of "wrap it all up with vague advice" as if people are afraid of the vague, or think that their piece has "no purpose" without a "takeaway." Either way, it rubs me the wrong way - thanks for giving language to my feeling.
I’m mainly going from memory as I too have abandoned twitter, but I highly highly doubt the situation there has changed since I last logged in. If anything I would bet that the advice dispensing has only accelerated.
Giving advice, even when solicited, can ruin relationships. For any advice to be useful, it implies some sort of change in the person being given the advice. It is almost inevitable that such advice will eventually be taken the wrong way. Defensiveness and hurt feelings follow. Best avoided.
Well said. There’s a weird power dynamic with advice and the implication that I as advice giver am superior and you as the advice receiver is inferior. Which is why that blanket generalised advice is the biggest problem of all because it implies the inferior/superior dynamic *in general* and not just within a specific technical domain.
POSTSCRIPT: A friend said to me, "Can I give you a piece of advice about your Substack Elder Mentor?" I agreed. She said that the title of the substack did not reflect the content of it. She was absolutely right. The content had gone in a different direction than I initially envisioned. So, I changed the title. Perhaps this type of advice-giving (feedback) is beneficial. And note that she asked me if I wanted the advice before offering it.
Feedback from an individual to another individual about a particular thing is fine and good. I was talking more about the general ‘you should do this, you should do that, I’m successful because I did x’ kind of generalised advice/pontification.
NOTHING BUT QUESTIONS: If I describe what I did to accomplish "X" (or how what I did failed), is that a form of advice? I am not telling anyone to do something or saying that it is the right (or wrong) way, but in saying that this worked (or didn't work) for me, am I not suggesting that this might work (or fail) for you too? Does that constitute advice?
I think if anything is wrapped in a narrative so it is clearly from the individuals unique experience then it has the benefits or advice without the downsides.
This piece stemmed from me happening across plenty of unsolicited advice being broadcast on social media that was unnuanced to the point of potentially being dangerous to people who didn’t have sufficient life experience and self knowledge to take it with the necessary grain of salt.
This piece resonates. I remember getting some editing help on a draft awhile back and someone said something to the effect of “maybe you can end the piece with the lessons you learned from this experience and how they might apply to others.” I quickly snapped back with, “Yeah, I’m not going to do that.” The point was that I wanted people to *feel* a certain way after reading, which I think has more of an impact than vapid “takeaways”.
100%. The general cultural move towards writing to give people takeaways instead of writing to make the audience feel something has been a mistake. Probably because the latter takes way more work and talent and time to achieve.
Besides, lessons only really go in if they are encoded in narrative and emotion anyway.
I could have written a whole series of essays about materialism, compulsion, collecting etc but I was able to more effectively get all of that across in a single story.
Also for some sick reason I think people genuinely don't want an emotional impact, only a "solution X for workplace problem Y" type content (or craft if one really need to fight to survive).
There is a particularly annoying take that I'm starting to notice where a Twitter user will schedule a series of Tweets, often repeating at least twice daily, most of which are relatively benign "advice" but accompanied with some humblebrags and 1 - 2 "I was right when everyone else said I was wrong and I made $$$ or €€€ or £££" boasts. I mean, I know hustling and self-promotion can be necessary - it's a crowded Internet - but that approach doesn't win me over. In fact, it makes me less likely to trust them.
My biggest gripe with such posters is how everyone absolutely disregards survivorship bias and luck. People get insanely lucky and then just try to sell their one-off success as some sort of a roadmap that could be followed by anyone.
An absolute prime example of what I’m talking about. Not that young people can’t gain true experience in wisdom in there short years but it also amazes me how young many of those online advice givers are.
Thank you Tom, although you have written the article that I have been thinking about. My discontent stemmed from forever reading stuff that told me what to do. Why can't I just be? I wonder, why do I have to be better, stronger, fitter etc.? However I still haven't been able to answer the question of what else there is to talk about.
Show, not tell. Except when you’re writing about telling other people not to tell.
Precisely.
I think it--once again--goes back to the high school writing advice will all receive. You’ve got to leave it on a happy ending. You’ve got tell people what lessons you’ve learned. You’ve got to evaluate. Blah.
I think you might be on to something there. A lot of people get messed up by their experience of school in one way or another.
It's always interesting to me that most people struggle to break out of the writing advice they got given at school. You're instantly 90% better as a writer if you just bin that shit off.
Yeah, start from first principles and if/when you get completely stuck on something then seek out someone who has expertise.
People put the cart before the horse on this constantly.
Again, you reveal things to me that i am subconsciously aware of - you make the subconscious conscious. I'm not "on" Twitter any longer so likely don't see a lot of what you are talking about, but I have definitely noticed that in essays - a sort of "wrap it all up with vague advice" as if people are afraid of the vague, or think that their piece has "no purpose" without a "takeaway." Either way, it rubs me the wrong way - thanks for giving language to my feeling.
I’m mainly going from memory as I too have abandoned twitter, but I highly highly doubt the situation there has changed since I last logged in. If anything I would bet that the advice dispensing has only accelerated.
Right, i forgot you are no longer on that which will not be named. Also, right after i read your post, i read this relevant piece by one of my favorite photographers https://dinalitovsky.bulletin.com/advice-for-photographers-that-doesn-t-suck/
Oscar Wilde humorously quipped, “The only thing to do with good advice is pass it on. It is never any use to oneself.”
That’s a gem of a quote. I definitely would have used it had I encountered it before. And that’s a great piece there, thanks for sharing it.
Could do with some similes, this.
Hahaha. Nicely done.
Giving advice, even when solicited, can ruin relationships. For any advice to be useful, it implies some sort of change in the person being given the advice. It is almost inevitable that such advice will eventually be taken the wrong way. Defensiveness and hurt feelings follow. Best avoided.
Well said. There’s a weird power dynamic with advice and the implication that I as advice giver am superior and you as the advice receiver is inferior. Which is why that blanket generalised advice is the biggest problem of all because it implies the inferior/superior dynamic *in general* and not just within a specific technical domain.
POSTSCRIPT: A friend said to me, "Can I give you a piece of advice about your Substack Elder Mentor?" I agreed. She said that the title of the substack did not reflect the content of it. She was absolutely right. The content had gone in a different direction than I initially envisioned. So, I changed the title. Perhaps this type of advice-giving (feedback) is beneficial. And note that she asked me if I wanted the advice before offering it.
Feedback from an individual to another individual about a particular thing is fine and good. I was talking more about the general ‘you should do this, you should do that, I’m successful because I did x’ kind of generalised advice/pontification.
NOTHING BUT QUESTIONS: If I describe what I did to accomplish "X" (or how what I did failed), is that a form of advice? I am not telling anyone to do something or saying that it is the right (or wrong) way, but in saying that this worked (or didn't work) for me, am I not suggesting that this might work (or fail) for you too? Does that constitute advice?
I think if anything is wrapped in a narrative so it is clearly from the individuals unique experience then it has the benefits or advice without the downsides.
This piece stemmed from me happening across plenty of unsolicited advice being broadcast on social media that was unnuanced to the point of potentially being dangerous to people who didn’t have sufficient life experience and self knowledge to take it with the necessary grain of salt.
This piece resonates. I remember getting some editing help on a draft awhile back and someone said something to the effect of “maybe you can end the piece with the lessons you learned from this experience and how they might apply to others.” I quickly snapped back with, “Yeah, I’m not going to do that.” The point was that I wanted people to *feel* a certain way after reading, which I think has more of an impact than vapid “takeaways”.
100%. The general cultural move towards writing to give people takeaways instead of writing to make the audience feel something has been a mistake. Probably because the latter takes way more work and talent and time to achieve.
Besides, lessons only really go in if they are encoded in narrative and emotion anyway.
I could have written a whole series of essays about materialism, compulsion, collecting etc but I was able to more effectively get all of that across in a single story.
https://thomasjbevan.substack.com/p/the-record-collector
This is the direction I am more interested in pursuing.
Also for some sick reason I think people genuinely don't want an emotional impact, only a "solution X for workplace problem Y" type content (or craft if one really need to fight to survive).
Yes, exactly. I really enjoyed that story.
Thanks.
There is a particularly annoying take that I'm starting to notice where a Twitter user will schedule a series of Tweets, often repeating at least twice daily, most of which are relatively benign "advice" but accompanied with some humblebrags and 1 - 2 "I was right when everyone else said I was wrong and I made $$$ or €€€ or £££" boasts. I mean, I know hustling and self-promotion can be necessary - it's a crowded Internet - but that approach doesn't win me over. In fact, it makes me less likely to trust them.
My biggest gripe with such posters is how everyone absolutely disregards survivorship bias and luck. People get insanely lucky and then just try to sell their one-off success as some sort of a roadmap that could be followed by anyone.
Takes a rare humility to entertain the idea that in spite of your efforts your success may just be a product of good fortune.
An absolute prime example of what I’m talking about. Not that young people can’t gain true experience in wisdom in there short years but it also amazes me how young many of those online advice givers are.